A Note on “Coconut Queen 2”

Recently, a fan of Coconut Queen contacted me to ask about the sequel.  It’s true, we tried setting the game up to end on a cliffhanger, with lots of unanswered questions, to help push for a sequel.  We loved making that game, as the subject material was rich with humorous opportunities wrapped around a very solid mechanic.

But the sequel was not meant to be.  As I explained to George T., the game was a critical success but a commercial flop.  I won’t go into the reasons, but the game made back less than 10% of what it cost to develop it, by my calculations.  Under those circumstances, no sane company would throw more money at a franchise, and I’m not one to disagree!  To compound things, the publisher owns the rights, but has gotten out of the casual games industry in favor of a new core competency, and I am no longer with that company.


For George and the few other fans, I dug up my notes on CQ2, and will share them here:

Liz made her way to the other side of the island, to find a mirror image setup of the situation she was in, only with a man on the throne, surrounded by beautiful women.

What players would have found out next is that Arthur (yes, the protagonists are Queen Elizabeth and King Arthur) had a similar situation.  The natives, who were transplants from Colorado half a century before, had established the original Lui-Lui resort, but had been unable to agree on how to rescue their island from financial and ecological disaster.  The natives had finally agreed to try two approaches–tourism and agriculture–in relative isolation from one another.  They did their best to pick “clean slate” candidates, and give them nearly completely free rein in tackling their respective problems.

CQ2 would have focused on Arthur’s story, starting a little bit before Liz forced the eruption of Mount Kaba-Lui (an event that one of the level designers with a degree in geography assured me was utterly impossible).  Where the first game had you more or less banishing the ugly industrial side in favor of better looking tourist attractions, CQ2 would have you focusing on how to make the best of the food production aspects of life on Lui-Lui.

You would get to meet the female counterparts of Kane, Manu and the rest of the gang on the other side of the island as we poked fun at concepts of “male fantasy” this time around.  Picture beautiful women in CoCoCo Coconut Bikinis, an emphasis on gadgets to solve problems, bamboo hot rods and motorcycles (which we cut from the original game), and more.

I wish I could have continued the story and the type of gameplay, as I like “Environment-as-character” mechanics.  It’s not entirely out of the realm of likelihood that a sequel could be made, and retroactively boost sales of the original, thereby justifying the investment after the fact.  It happened with Westward, another of my games.

But game development is not free.  The cost to you, the player, is $7 to $20 for a few hours of entertainment.  The idea is that a game will make back its development costs through a high volume of sales at a low price.  And there’s no guarantee that we could bring that gang back together for a project.  Even if I heavily reused the art and engineering from the original, I’m talking $50,000 to develop, at a bare minimum.  It would take 5,000 people paying $10 each and then waiting several months for a return on their investment.  I think Coconut Queen, at her best, sold 3,000 copies.

You might think “How about going episodic? Sell each episode for $5-$10, and let each one fund the next?” I’d be for it, but that effectively shuts the door on the major distributors like Big Fish Games.  The casual game portals will not sell partial games, modifications to games, or expansion packs, only complete games.  They understandably don’t want to be in a situation where a developer forces them to carry a certain product, because it’s required by another product.  Every game must be a complete, standalone experience.

That being said, I’ve seen some remarkable crowd-funded projects.  This one’s a bit daunting, though.

So there you have it.  The passion was there to make a sequel, and the people who played the game enjoyed it, but the numbers didn’t add up to make a commitment to develop it.


51 responses to “A Note on “Coconut Queen 2”

  1. Thank you for the update. I loved the original game and have been periodically scouring the internet looking for hints about when the sequel would be coming, but hadn’t been able to find anything about it. I am sad to hear that we will not be getting a sequel, but I really appreciate hearing how the cliffhanger would have been resolved. I loved the free form environment and how you allowed completely individualized planning/scene creation. Yours is one of the only games that truly made a giant leap from the Build-A-Lot model and took the concept to the next level in a unique and logical manner. Thank you for hours of fun!

  2. Pingback: Why there will never be a sequel to Coconut Queen (Downloads) | Trendy Games

  3. I am of the opinion that when a game is critically acclaimed and not commercially successful, the development team has done a great job, but their company has failed to follow up with support. Some companies are in the mindset that they just push it out and expect hordes of customers to flock to it. I’m not blaming the marketing department either as that was only really one person. The organization as a whole just did not believe in marketing a good product. The exact same thing happened to Kelly Green.

    We all did a great job on CQ. I’m proud of it. I do wish you could make another.

  4. I am so disappointed there will not be another one! Out of all the games I own (well over 300 but way too many to count) this is the one I replay most often, since I can control things enough to make it a little different every time. It wasn’t the storyline as much as the gameplay that really made me love it so much.

  5. Hey Andy,

    Thank you very much for the post. A great read. Sorry to hear taht there would be no CQ2 :(.

    I am also a gamedeveloper and i liked Coconut Queen alot! Though it is a bit strange to hear that Coconut queen did not recoup the investment.
    if u check out this link http://casualcharts.com/games/detail/coconutqueen.html
    you’ll see that it must’ve sold way more then 3000 copies. It’s hard to say for sure withouth seeing the sales reports, but judging from my experience games with metrics such as this one should deffinately make more.


    • Danny, I have no reason to lie about the numbers! Casual Charts doesn’t provide you with any meaningful sales numbers, only a sense of how differently a game performs across different portals. Between the day that Coconut Queen was launched on iWin and the day I was laid off, the game sold 2,200 copies on iWin’s portal. And that was where it performed the best.

  6. I had a lot of success taking a “failed” PC franchise to the iPad. I think this series would be a great fit for iOS.

    • Matt, I agree wholeheartedly. I have lots of games that I think would do well on the touch screen. In fact, I’m reviving an old and underserved game design right now…

  7. I’m so disappointed to read thru your post! What a let down for all that work and to be so unsupported by the company’s marketing team, that only 3,000 people became aware of the amazing game that is Coconut Queen. It was humorous without being raunchy, it was adorable without being sappy… Of ALL my Big Fish Games (of which I have several Hundred) it’s one of a select few I will play and replay. Personally, I think we should set it up on KickStarter and have all of us Fans Support you through your process!
    Good Luck in your continuing Development process and future games!

  8. CQ is the reason I joined IWin as BF was not carrying the game. I read the review on Gamezebo and just had to play the game. I agree there must have been a grave error in marketing for this game to only have appealed to 3K people. There are other games I have purchased after playing a sequel. The reason being I was not into games when the original was released. Hope there is some way CQ2 comes about.

  9. I agree with FairlyCharmed. Kickstarter!

    • Kickstarter is awesome for projects under $10,000. Making an expansion pack for Coconut Queen would cost 5 times that, and making a true sequel would cost ten times that. Sorry!

  10. Yeah, sad story. It was pleasure to work with you on CQ and I really liked the game itself. Look what I’ve found, couple of saved screenshots from middle stages of development (put in my DropBox):


  11. Aren’t you Andy Megowan? The former Creative Director at iWin whose games were always on time, on budget, and critically acclaimed?

  12. I, too, am very disappointed that there will not be a sequel. I loved the humor, the voices, and the fact that it had such high replay value. I have to agree with many other reviewers who fault the marketing of the game for not meeting sales expectations. I somehow stumbled upon the game, rather than hearing of it and having to find it (again, poor marketing). About 30 minutes into the demo, I knew it was a definite buy!

    It is a shame that some devs pump out garbage and manage to continue to get funding, yet a fun, unique, highly replayable game goes by the wayside.

  13. Aside from the constant crashing on the final level this was an exceptional game. My wife downloaded it and on a lark I jumped in and played a level while she was off doing something. I was hooked and have since played it through twice, with some freeplay.

    So it’s quite a disappointment to find out that there will be no sequel (though appreciate that you bothered to actually post the news). Point me in the direction of any other games like it and I’ll be there in a flash.

    P.S. I’m wondering if part of it’s non-commercial success had something to do with thenaming. I mean come-on, most gamers are guys 18-35 and we aren’t really likely to seek out a game called Coconut Queen. Just saying.

    • Hi Greg,
      It’s a bummer to hear that you and your wife encountered a crash bug. The QA team at iWin banged on the game for months before it was released, as we tried every conceivable way to break the game, and then figured out a way to prevent that breakage.

      There’s an ugly reality about games: you have to look at how many people are experiencing a given bug when deciding whether to invest in fixing it. If it’s one consumer that the developer risks losing, then it’s a loss of $7, or a loss of $4 if you bought it somewhere other than iWin.com. The cost to fix the bug involves reproducing the bug, which sometimes involves purchasing a computer that is configured identically to yours, then spending the time to reproduce the bug, come up with a solution, implement it, and then put the whole game through the Quality Assurance process again, to make sure that the fix didn’t have any unintended consequences, breaking something else in another part of the game. So it could cost a few thousand dollars to secure the concrete reward of your $4-$7, plus the less concrete reward of the warm fuzzies caused by doing the right thing 🙂

      But I need to respond to your point about “most gamers are guys 18-35”. Before 2002, you would have been right. But there are now 3 distinct gaming markets!

      The hardcore gamers are still out there, your males 18-35, and they will play their hardcore games but also casual games.

      But then there are the casual gamers, which are a market that covers all kinds of people, but with its largest group represented by women 35-65! And where the hardcore gamer usually buys 1-2 games per year (and frequently pirates the rest), the casual gamer buys 2-10 games per year, and always pays for them.

      Finally, there is the social gamer, the person who plays online social games. There are 400 million people who match this description, and their numbers grow every day. Out of this group, 1% will pay real money for virtual property. That’s right, they’re paying not for a whole game, but rather for tiny fractions of it! That’s still 4 million people spending around $20 a month. And this group, spending more on social games than hardcore and casual games combines, has NO overlap with hardcore gamers.

      Anyhow: The places where “Coconut Queen” was distributed targeted the casual audience, primarily women over 30. The game, title, and premise were perfectly targeted at the intended audience. iWin made certain of this through analysis of the market, which had hit titles like “Sally’s Spa”, “Delicious Deluxe”, “Cake Mania”, “Super Granny” and “Samantha Swift”.

      Greg, I welcome your commentary, and hope that I’ve shed a little more light on the inner workings of the games industry for you!

  14. Hey Andy,

    wouldn’t it be possible to somehow fund a sequel with the help of fans? I have forgotten the name of the site, but there definitely is one where one can collect fundings for certain projects (I think that has been done just recently with gametunnel?!). With good promotion this might really work out.


    • Hi Dave,
      I think that the microfinancing solution that you’re suggesting is Kickstarter. For a great many projects, Kickstarter is a really great solution for connecting the creators of a product to the customers and fans, and also for the fans to invest early in exchange for getting something special.

      I would really like a solution like Kickstarter for funding a game’s development. However, the biggest Kickstarter projects bring in at most $10,000, and development of a true sequel would cost at least $70,000. If I put together a team to just make another chapter, it would still cost about $25,000 just to get the franchise going again, and then $15,000 or so to make successive chapters.

      If you figure donations of $10 each from enthusiastic fans, then you would need 7,000 people contributing $10 each. Lots of projects offer additional perks to people who donate larger numbers, such as memorabilia, posters, or collectibles. So maybe I come up with some premium object that I can give to $20 “big spenders”, and manage to get 50 such people, then it would still take 50 Big Spenders and 6,900 regular donations. It makes no sense to ask for more than $20 from someone in a market where casual games cost $7 from any major portal.

      So the game would need at least 6,900 people pledging money before production could start. Less than 3,000 people bought the original game worldwide. It just doesn’t seem likely.

      There is another site that works just like Kickstarter, but just for videogame projects. It’s called 8-Bit Funding. But no project there has managed to secure more than $1,500.

  15. Hi Andy! I was just thinking about how much fun I had working on this game today and decided to look it up and ran into your blog. I wish there would be a CQ2 as well, but we all know that would never happen. Good luck on your new ventures, Andy!

  16. I think it is awesome how everyone has developed such a zeal to play this game (myself included). It really speaks to the quality of your work and the great amount of thought and design you (and others) have invested into Coconut Queen. My 10 year old daughter and I play it and discuss where best to put our buildings etc. We’ve had a fun time with it and I am always grateful for a family-friendly game that I can share with my kids (yes I’m one of your target market – lol). Hoping for your continued success in this field. Thanks again.

  17. Thank you for finally explaining the situation. I’ve been checking up and waiting ever since the original came out, (yes, 3 whole years) for three sequel and at least now I understand what’s going on. I’m one of those 3 thousand that happily bought the game for full price from iWin the day it came out. Heck, I’d still be happy to advance some money for a sequel to come out. 🙂 Maybe a site could be set up for pre-ordering? Customers would put down the money on the understanding that if enough people join a sequel could be made, if not, we’d get our money back. Let me put a deposit on that sequel 😉

  18. I’m a little sad, but at least I have an answer. I’ve been waiting for a sequel since the original came out. Thanks for taking the time to explain, and to answer the subsequent posts. This is one of the most delightful games I’ve played, with lots of replay value. The concept was clever and it’s a shame it won’t get fully realized. Good luck with your future ventures!

  19. I’m really bummed to hear there won’t be a CQ2. I loved the original and I really wish there was a way there would be a sequel.

  20. Just found CQ and after 3 nights of going to sleep at 4am it might be a good thing that there is no CQ2 (LOL!) Anyway, i just wanted you to know how much I enjoyed this game. It is one of the few I own with good replay value! Now, if I can just figure out how to unlock those last two buildings…

  21. I’m sorry the game was not a commercial success. You did a very nice job making this game and I really enjoyed playing it.

  22. George A Trosper

    Mr. Garustovich: Links are broken. I get a 404 for each of them.

  23. George A Trosper

    Mr. Megowan: Thank you VERY much!

  24. I noticed that you left out the ending of what would be coconut queen 2. You described a good bit of the story line, but not the ending or the why. Why split the island into two parts, one male and female, what was the general purpose of that? The “president” of CoCoCo (Kane’s dad) said they needed help restoring the pineapples or what not, and that I understand. What I don’t understand is what was the purpose of the split and where would the story line have gone after that? What happened with Manu? Why were there electronics hidden around the island other than to contact “civilization”. Basically, I would LOVE if you filled in all the blanks and tied up all the loose ends, as this was a very interesting story. I know that if there were a sequel, my husband would play it and so would a lot of other navy guys we know. They would download it and take it out to sea with them. Never underestimate male gamers. You tell them that there is a game out there that has women in bikinis, even cartoon women, they will gobble it up like hormone driven teenagers. That’s one of the reasons I liked the game, becasue the workers all said “As you wish, your gorgeousness” and the like. It does wonders for the self confidence. I think that honestly you may not have advertised the game well enough. I only saw the game about a year or so ago on bigfishgames.com’s website because it was their featured game of the day. However, I saw an ad on facebook of all things for about nine or twelve games, eight of which I have played and beaten. Maybe you should try that? Or even mailers? Anyone who is on these forums has submitted their email addresses, what about sending an email saying something like *Exclusive trial of CQ2 one free hour* like bigfishgames does? If people can get a demo of the game for free and play it long enough to get addicted, then they’ll find the way to buy it, that is how I’ve always done it. I bought my first game through bigfishgames.com when I was 13 with my debit card without my parents knowing. They were furious becasue I made an online purchase and had not understood the risks, but let me keep the game becasue it was my hard earned money and I could spend it how I chose to. Again, these are just suggestions from a twenty-something. If you want to get into the minds of your target audience, what better way then to hear from them yourself? You could even send out a poll asking “If you could get in on the ground floor of tesing a beta version of a game for free, would you do it?” I can guarantee you would have an enormous response, even if it was only people thinking that they could get a job as a game tester, they would still love to get in and play, and you get people who may love the game and tell others about it. ALSO as it was discussed earlier, I myself would get in on a Kickstarter program for helping fund the making of CQ2, even if it meant only getting a beta version. I have searched far and wide for a certain version of a game called Aveyond (builds A and B are both fairly rare to find) and I believe I paid a good sum of money for the whole series, including the many builds of the games, which cost about $200 total. Let me restate that these are half the midnight ramblings of a college student, and half the ideas of a person with great ideas that never seem to reach the people they’d be most useful to. But seriously, I REALLY want to know waht happens with all the unanswered questions I had earlier! 🙂

  25. Pingback: How Coconut Queen 2 Will Be Made | Andy Megowan's Blog

  26. A part of me wishes I hadn’t read this post, because I really did want a sequel. Even though I played the game in 2009, I still remember it fondly, and I enjoyed the experience very much. The graphics, the characters, music, all of it came together beautifully. Thanks for creating Coconut Queen 🙂

    • Thank you for your kind message. In my spare time, I am working on a game for all of the people who enjoyed the original, and while I don’t own that license, the other side of the Island is an entirely different story…

  27. You know, Wasteland 2 just got funded through Kickstarter and they raised far more than $10,000.. At last count they managed to raise $1 million. Why not try to get some support going for CQ2 on Kickstarter and implement your own guerilla marketing tactics?

    • Update: When they closed their funding goals they ended with over 2 million.

      • andymegowan

        Those numbers are exciting and encouraging, and you’re right, I would absolutely use Kickstarter to fund an indie project. The Indie Fund, an alternative that I’ve seen great results from, and which makes its money back in days rather than months, is extremely difficult to solicit. Out of the tens of thousands of people who approached them, I believe that 8 games got funded, of which 6 are now out.

        On Kickstarter, it’s true that we are seeing great investments for projects involving well-known developers or well-loved titles. When Tim Schafer announces that he wants to make an adventure game, that’s worldwide news. Tim is a friend of a friend, and I also want to see this business model do well, so I kicked in a few dollars, too.

        When Brian Fargo, a lesser but still highly influential game guy announces a sequel to a world-famous game, the inspiration for all of the FALLOUT games, that’s worldwide news.

        Coconut Queen doesn’t have the cult status of either WASTELAND or Tim Schafer, and is really only known to a handful of people. Development costs would be at least $100K for a game with Coconut Queen’s production values–or higher!–and I think that the original only sold a few thousand copies. If we say that a sequel was such an exciting prospect to people that they’d invest months beforehand, the numbers are pretty steep for that crowd. $100,000 split by 2,500 people is $40 a pop for the kind of game that folks are accustomed to paying $1-$7 for now. The thing is, that original game cost more than triple this amount!

        That isn’t to say that I might not try making a light, mobile version of that gameplay for a lower sticker price, though.

        Thanks for your support.

  28. I just located this thread, having Googled any news about a potential Coconut Queen sequel (Coconut King?) – though, mostly it was to solve the cliffhanger at the end of the level.

    I’m a female, myself. I have to admit, I love Coconut Queen so dearly, simply because it puts the usual game gender roles on its head. I have dozens, if not more, games wherein there are skimpy clad women to cater to potential male customers – to see a game wherein I get beefcake hunks running around sprouting innuendo while managing to be utterly hilarious and entertaining, I was sold on the spot. Still am – I keep recommending it to all of my female friends.

    However, in some ways, I have to admit I think it’s a bit of a good thing that Coconut Queen 2 wasn’t made. From what I can read from the post, it would simply lose its unique appeal and instead become yet another of the many “here, have skimpy slash nearly naked women to ogle” games. That said, exactly because of that aspect, a potential Coconut King game would likely more than make up for the poor sales of Coconut Queen…

    But whether or not Coconut King becomes a reality, I’ll still be playing around and giggling my arse off everytime I hear “Did you.. /need/ me for anything?” upon training another worker.

  29. I love CQ and am in the casual gamer category! I would be willing to preorder a sequel and put down a deposit! Please make it happen!!

  30. I am also bummed to find out there will be no sequel. I have just finished playing CQ for at least the third, if not fourth or fifth time. I have been looking for the sequel since I originally played the game. I did not get it from Iwin, but from bigfish. Thank you for giving us the “end of the story.”

  31. Thank you for a great game that I really enjoyed. At the end of the game I swear I heard the Coconut Queen command a sequel. hmmmm.

  32. blissfulcoconut

    Like many others, I’ve been expecting a sequel too. It’s very unfortunate to read about this, but the experience of CQ1 was such a pleasure. Thank you to your team for making such a wonderful and funny game! I would surely miss Zane and the other workers. It’s been years since I last played it, might as well pay them a visit. 🙂

  33. I just want to say I’m sorry the game was not a bigger success. I bought this game years ago and to this day, I still replay it over and over again. It does a great job of putting me in a happy mood, and to this day, I still laugh whenever I hear Manu’s and the other workers comments. I heard “The sharks have come, to play with the tourists!” yesterday and I was in fits. The voice acting was great, the idea behind it was original, the graphics are colourful and bright, and the gameplay is so much fun. I’d just like to thank you for making this game, you’re all really talented. An extra big thankyou for telling us the main scope for game 2! Good luck in anything else you do 🙂

  34. ik you said coconut queen was a commercial flop but i think a sequel would be more of a success…when liz found all the other females…take it from there 🙂 idk i read what u said about how the sequel was supposed to be but i think maybe a different approach might be thought of? anyway i would really love a sequel please 🙂

  35. I am so sad to hear that there will not be another one. I find myself searching constantly for a new one. I played the first one about three times already. Have you ever looked into programs that have people funding the project? There are places like upstart.com, and others. Some want shares but others will take a service or product in return. Just a thought, would love another one of these games, it was great.

    • Thank you for sharing your love of the game! I have spent time looking at crowdfunding Coconut Queen 2 as well as several other games. There are a couple hundred fans of the game who would probably willingly pay $20-$40 for a sequel. That’s $20K out of what I now estimate as $160K to develop a real sequel, assuming that I was working at a company that paid people to make the game. Otherwise, the cost goes up because you would have to give people an incentive to leave their job security and benefits to work on this game. We already know that while it was loved, no sequel would make enough revenue to justify the development costs.

  36. So sad to hear that the game didn’t make enough revenue. I play Coconut Queen through Game House and have replayed it almost every year! I wanted to write this comment here to let you know that this game is not forgotten and it is still enjoyable to play after all this year (even though I cannot complete all of the levels due to the bug). Thanks for making this awesome game and I hope that in the future you will get to develop a game similar to this.

    • Thank you for your kind words of praise! I am proud of the team’s work on this game, and wish there was a way for us to make more games for fans like you.

  37. Shame, just bought this game on Bigfish today and then found this as I started to look for more information. I enjoyed the humor and tight game mechanics especially. I see you mentioned a while back you might play with an idea for the other side of the island, and I hope you do, but reality requires a bit more support than the usual casual gamers. Best wishes in your endeavors. No surprise to me that you were around Westward also. Another well made game with humor throughout.

    • I’m glad you liked both Westward and Coconut Queen. The story outline for “Coconut Queen 2” was finished shortly after the cut scenes for “Coconut Queen” was done, so it’s not quite ready for production but I have a good idea of what it would be like. I think that game development is closed to all but a few people once you reach a certain age, so my only option would be to be an independent game developer. Perhaps some day when raising a family takes a smaller chunk of time, I’ll resume making games for fun!

  38. Tricia Tahere

    I think you underestimate the potential of kickstarter if you write an emotive and informative pitch people will support you and then have a pledge lvl where you pay $500 to get a character named after you or to develop a personalised line in collaboration with the devs. Think the guys who look at the skimpy clad girls can say to their wives i named a character after you.

    But if this side is to go tech with motorcycles then maybe some cool fashion to go with not just the standard coconut bikini’s which no woman wears for too long as they are really uncomfortable especially on a motorcycle.which then you could offer at a pledge level paying $25 + postage is kind of standard for a kickstarter t-shirt pledge.$50 for a KS exclusive design.

    ooh and artwork from the game designers especially signed is always cool or even a answering machine message from the voice over team. or a ring/message tone would be cool if my hands free suddenly said do you need me I am willing to serve.

    Hell i’d pay a $100 if my game came with property of or maybe a few kickstarter exclusive edition.

    we have been waiting a while so a little bit more would be alright if we knew it was happening.

    KS supporters don’t just pay for the game they pay for the story behind the people of the game.

    i and a lot of others backed the potato salad guy think he wanted a $100 and ended up hosting a festival.

    And another project i backed the guy didn’t quit his job for 6 months after he got funded.

    Oh i forgot to say Thanks for the games a lot of the games you have been involved in are my favorites including garden defense, westward etc.

    oh and i love the robin hood idea. would make a kickass ps4 game

    • Tricia Tahere

      oh real shame you don’t own the rights to CQ really would love a shirt with Coconut Queen on it

    • Thanks for your words of encouragement! I know several companies and individuals who frequently leverage Kickstarter. Some have been exceptional in their success. Boardgames tend to do well, because all of the development has been done and all that’s needed is to cover the costs of manufacturing. Computer games have a horrible reputation; many developers go in without knowing the true scope of work, and run out of money before they are finished with development. Being attached to a high profile individual or company also helps a great deal!

      At this point, I don’t have the resources to even put together a Kickstarter campaign. But were I to write a game right now, my target audience would be my 3-year-old son 🙂

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